BCBC - Podcast - s2e12 Lady Elizabeth - ProDomme

About this episode...

Monkey and David explore the world of a ProDomme with Lady Elizabeth. What is a ProDomme? How does she fit into Sex Workers? I thought people that hired Prodommes just liked to get tied up and beaten? IT goes a lot deeper than that and Lady Elizabeth is a joy to talk to.

A little about Lady Elizabeth...

I'm deeply involved in BDSM as a passion, a lifestyle, a profession, and a topic for academic research. I've been a professional dominant since for over a decade. I currently own a private, beautifully-equipped dungeon in central Connecticut, perfectly located between New York City and Boston. Within the dungeon, my specialties include corporal punishment and corrective discipline, bondage, electrical play, medical scenarios, and many other deviations. I particularly enjoy teaching novices and couples about the diverse world of BDSM.

I also hold a PhD in Anthropology from an Ivy League university, where I specialized in the study of gender, sexuality, and language in BDSM communities. In my vanilla life, I offer consulting work with couples and individuals having communication difficulties.

Where to find Lady Elizabeth...




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Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast
00:49:16 4/10/2018

Past Episodes

Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast
Buffy worked at a cathouse (brothel) and we are here to ask all the questions you always wanted to know, here's your chance to learn about the sexy world of cathouses in Nevada.
01:00:59 1/3/2020
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast
Monkey & Laura discuss some of the recent shows that have hit the streaming services (and more) that have a definite positive or different look at the lives of people managing and learning about body - gender - and sex positive values.
00:00:00 12/16/2019
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast
We have been away for while now but we are BACK!! Monkey and Laura talk about where the show is going and what YOU can expect from The Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast! We are your SEX - BODY - GENDER POSITIVE TALK AND INTERVIEW PODCAST (please make Monkey stop it with the caps) Write to us at monkey@bcbcpodcast, laura@bcbcpodcast And find us on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/BCBCPodcast/ S4E Teaser
00:11:00 10/24/2019
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast

Welcome to our last Podcast for our month of October on Gender Identities, the Gender Spectrum, and Gender Transitions. We have had an amazing month, where we have spoken with experts on gender and transitions, and to several people about their personal journeys. Tomorrow we have our final Behind the Scenes blog for the year - so do not forget to check that out. But today is the final discussion on Gender.

In this Episode:

Today, Monkey and the Professor sit around the table and talk to Dr. Caroline Gibbs about steps involved in gender transitions - to facilitate healthy and balanced and successful transitions or, as Dr. Raj prefers - Gender Affirmation processes.

Caroline Gibbs is the founder and director of The Transgender Institute, and is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor and National Certified Counselor, nationally and internationally recognized as an educator, advocate, and provider for this population.
She is also a partner in the International Center for Transgender Care.
She understands the current DSM-5 diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria and differentiates among sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, and sexual orientation.

A Few Definitions:

We discussed a few definitions - and Caroline wanted to point out that terminology has changed - both in the phrases allowed as well as in the change of definitions. With that in mind, she believes that gender is a hardwired construct that cannot be altered - it is how people feel they are as far as male, female, or in between. That feeling is what it is - although someone's external appearance may or may not reflect those feelings.

Transgender is also a very broad term. It is an umbrella term that includes transsexual people (people whose gender identity does not match their physical selves), cross-dressers (predominantly male, heterosexual people, who enjoy dressing as women), and drag queens (crossdressers who dress as more famous women for sexual pleasure or for fun). Caroline feels that cross-dressers often have a varied transsexual identity. After time in therapy and life experience - they find themselves with a shift in their identity. There is no standard here nor has there been research. They may or may not ever move to the transgender part of the umbrella and may not transition.

Gender dysphoria has many misconceptions in the world. In general, it means, very simply, discomfort. In some cases, it may be extreme discomfort. Adding the term gender in front of that means someone who has discomfort around their gender. This involves a mismatch in gender identity from that assigned at birth, and where they may present physically - and what they feel is internally their true gender. As the Professor suggested - their insides do not match their outsides. It can be a very serious issue.

Transitioning is where someone makes a decision to journey to make the internal and external self-match. There are many different things that may happen to make that match - and many levels of matching. The goal is the removal of gender dysphoria, providing freedom and ease for the person. This is where Caroline's organization works - in helping people make the decision as to what the best choices for each individual would be. It is a goal of finding relief.

The Transgender Institute Foundation:

Caroline loves the story of how she arranged for these things to happen in her life. Around 25 years ago she met a group of transsexual individuals who were teaching clinicians on how to treat them and help them through their transitions. There were no standards or practices available at the time to facilitate their journey. This means that the people who were suffering the dysphoria were forced to create their own paths. This was done through a series of lectures and workshops.

Over time, Caroline started dating one of the people in this community - this means that she has a very very personal connection to this community. She decided at that time that it was her passion and she wanted to help this community. She went back to school and got her degrees in advanced psychology and started the Transgender Institute. At that time there were no other resources - that is changing. They have had many successes over the years. This work has become the reason to go forward with her work and life.

Her process is called Transgender Growth Therapy. People go to her group, and through her practitioners, they grow in their psychological, emotional lives - into being whole. Many of those who seek her services start off fragmented - the base goal is to help them become whole. The journey for each is personal and different. The heart of their approach is Whole and therefore holistic. It is more than simply talking about their needs - they work on all aspects of their lives to help them find that wholeness.

Everyone who approaches Caroline's group are self-selected - they have a goal to become what they want to be and who they want to be.

One of the services they include is called the Feminine Immersion Program. People come from all over and stay for a week or longer, and immerse themselves in femininity, much as you would in a foreign language. Together they work, according to individual wishes, on every aspect of feminine identity. It could be working on vocalization, movement, and more. The goal is to help them blend into society - this used to be called passing.

  • Vocal Feminization
  • Fashion Styling
  • Hair and Wigs
  • Wardrobing
  • Makeup
  • Facial and body hair removal
  • Comportment - behavior differences and body language
  • And many more things

There are few statistics in the world of gender affirmation - though that is something that many people are focusing on more now than ever. Within Caroline's practice, they see children from the age of 3 years old up to her oldest client of 74 years old. There is no age boundary for the work she does. She believes that over time, this is a human condition, stable over time and geography.

International Center for Transgender Care:

Caroline is also the founder for the ICTC. It was founded and is the brainchild of herself and Dr. Kee Rafell? The idea is around the fact that the majority of the people that Caroline sees at her Institute often move to the path of surgery. They refer people back and forth between the organization's complementary actions. The long-term goal is to have a physical location for this in Dallas TX and it is in process.

Caroline suggests that the approach they use is holistic. Holistic means treating the whole person - not just a part. It is more than talk therapy, vocal feminization, surgery, etc. They do EVERYTHING possible that they can to address the needs of the transgender community.

While the ICTC is not the only transgender surgeons around the world, Caroline believes they are some of the best surgeons in the world. She loves the partnership the Trans Institute and the ICTC have - allowing the two organizations to work together holistically to ensure that the patients are WHOLE at the end of the process - able to blend. It is about helping those on the journey to be most successful in all aspects.

Challenges Working With People:

In general, Caroline's biggest challenge working within the broader community, there are co-morbid conditions that co-exist with gender dysphoria - including depression, bi-polar, etc. Unfortunately, these are not always understood so the diagnoses are often a problem with a failure to treat the whole person.

Working with transmen - it is, generally speaking, a much easier group to work with these people. They tend to have a very strong identity of being male - and they want hormone therapy fairly immediately. Her team can quickly identify these individuals very easily. Of course, there are people who are not as obvious - having a more feminine bearing initially. It is her goal to not keep people in therapy too long and putting up roadblocks. Their goal is to help people get to where they need to as quickly as possible.

Working with transwomen, it is much more difficult because, for some unknown reason, masculine socialization is very ingrained. This means it can sometimes be difficult to help MtF individuals to acquire feminine characteristics. Additionally, estrogen does nothing for modifying the voice. It means there is a lot of work and challenge around doing vocal feminization. Caroline actually started off as an opera singer many years ago - she uses her background in that to help teach people today, bodywork, movement, vocal techniques and more to help the transwomen blend. This is probably the hardest part of the entire transition process for transwomen - it is work that the women have to work at, actively, every day - to change their voices and bearing. There are a few surgeries that can aid in feminization of the voice-adjusting the pitch. Both techniques are not very effective and one of those techniques is extremely dangerous and can result in permanent damage to the voice.

Resources and Advice on Transition:

Caroline refers people out for physical modifications or appearance changes early on - hair removal, haircuts or trims. Helping people either grow their hair out or shorten it - to help them move through society in the earlier phases and steps of transition. They get to them learn styling skills and techniques that they can grow into as things shift and change.

Transus City - Website www.transuscity.com. This is a series of blogs that touches every subject around transgender individuals. Caroline feels that this is one of the best resources out there for both the people going through a transition but also their families. You cannot treat only the person - as part of the holistic approach is treating the entire family on the process.

There are also lists of books that she recommends, including books like Transgender 101.

For someone who is considering transition - Caroline, of course, suggests that they call or reach out to her organization. There are other gender therapists of course - but Caroline feels they are the best because of the holistic approach. She also recommends not doing a lot of web research - there is a lot of false and crazy information out there. Look for books recommended by some of the therapists and her group instead.

Caroline's team present workshops on a continual basis - at hospitals to educate the professionals. She has alliances with several hospitals and corporations and companies to help people be able to be better allies. She also works and provides workshops for schools. Many of the presentations they do are not open to the public - they are specific and targeted to clients and organization. Some of these are focused around people transitioning successfully on the job or while at school. Truman Medical Center is their newest ally. It is critical that anyone who comes in touch with transgender people know their stuff.

When training people, the fundamental goal they have is reducing Bias. Bias against the transgender people. It is the biggest enemy that there is. This is why they ensure that there are transmen and transwomen involved as part of their training - it is very hard to hate people up close. Demystifying and putting a face helps remove the bias.

We welcome Caroline to our barnyard. She identifies as a leopard. She believes that leopard is very sexy - she loves the fashion industry with all of the spots. Additionally, she NEVER changes her spots - she has to be strong to do the work she is doing and to stand as an advocate and that is why she is a leopard.

About Our Guest:

Caroline Gibbs, is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor and National Certified Counselor, nationally and internationally recognized as an educator, advocate, and provider for this population.

She understands the current DSM-5 diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria and differentiates among sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, and sexual orientation.

Working with this clientele requires specialization, comprising in part, an awareness of the impact of stress on gender dysphoria and the non-pathologizing of stress-related symptoms, and additionally, a particular knowledge of grief and bereavement as they manifest during the transgender client's and his or her family's journey.

Caroline brings a deep respect for, and sensitivity to, the needs of families of origin, partners, children and friends, a familiarity with the diversity of gender expression and the transgender liberation movement, and an in-depth knowledge of mental health issues and psychotherapeutic techniques. She also has the ability to assess for mental illness, addictions, and trauma-related conditions.

Caroline uses a holistic approach that includes psychological counseling, hormone treatment, psychiatric referrals, and surgery guidance among numerous other services.

She follows the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care (formerly the Harry Benjamin International Gender Association) and complies with the HIPAA Privacy Practices. Caroline is a member of WPATH; the International Foundation for Gender Education (IFGE); and the American Educational Gender Information Services (AEGIS).

Finding Caroline:

00:58:42 10/30/2018
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast


Of month topic: Issues Facing Trans/Intersex/Bi

Of hosts


Note: .3-.5% of Americans = roughly 1,300,000 people

Note on the GLAAD "Understanding" reports and National Center for Transgender Equality.

Ways we'll be discussing the topic (Section Descriptions: Discrimination, Legal Challenges, Physical Safety)

Section 1 - Discrimination

Discrimination in Public Accommodations

Public accommodations are places accessible to the public, such as retail stores, restaurants, parks, hotels, libraries, movie theatres, and banks. In a 2014 study conducted in Massachusetts, 65% of transgender people reported experiencing discrimination in a place of public accommodation in the past 12 months.

Discrimination in Employment

Transgender people experience pervasive discrimination at work. Between 13% and 47% of transgender workers report being unfairly denied a job,9 and 78% report being harassed, mistreated, or discriminated against at work, as shown in

Currently, only 18 states have clear laws prohibiting employment discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression (see Figure 3 on the next page).12 There is no federal law that explicitly prohibits discrimination against transgender employees, but there are some protections in place. Both the U.S. Attorney General and the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) have interpreted Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination "because of sex," to protect transgender workers.

Discrimination in Housing.

one in five transgender people (19%) in the United States have been refused a home or apartment and more than one in ten (11%) have been evicted because of their gender identity.21 Homelessness is a critical issue for transgender people, with one in five having experienced homelessness at some time in their lives because of discrimination and family rejection

Discrimination in Education

Schools are difficult places for transgender students as they regularly face discrimination, bullying, and harassment in elementary, secondary, and post-secondary institutions. In one survey, 40% of gender non-confirming youtha reported being frequently harassed by their peers and 37% reported frequent verbal harassment and name calling.26

Across the United States, only 13 states have laws that clearly protect students against discrimination because of their gender identity and/or expression

only 18 states expressly prohibit bullying on the basis of gender identity and/or expression (see Figure 6).29

A study in Massachusetts found that 19% of transgender respondents had postponed or avoided necessary care due to mistreatment or discrimination from health care workers.

Section 2 – Legal Challenges

Inaccurate Identity Documents

Official identity documents—such as drivers' licenses, birth certificates, and passports—that do not match a transgender person's gender identity greatly complicate that person's life. Non-matching identification can obstruct employment and travel, as well as expose transgender people to harassment, violence, refusal of service, job loss, and other problems.

Only one-fifth (21%) of transgender people who have transitioned to living in accordance with their gender identity have been able to update all of their IDs and official records with the correct gender, and onethird (33%) had updated none of their IDs or records,

Marriage and Family

Transgender people can be heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual, but regardless of their sexual orientation, they can often face myriad obstacles when it comes to marriage and parenting. For example, a transgender man who wants to marry a woman may still be seen as part of a same-sex couple and denied a marriage license in states that deny marriage to same-sex couples.

Depending on state law, the couple may be seen as a same-sex couple in one state and a heterosexual couple in another state, with their marriage becoming valid or invalid depending on their state of residence.

Even when a transgender person has legal recognition of their transition and enters into a heterosexual marriage, courts have invalidated such marriages during legal disputes (for example, a transgender man dies and his employer denies benefits to his wife, arguing that the marriage was not valid).

Additionally, if a marriage or relationship dissolves, transgender parents may have their gender identity or expression used to deny them custody or visitation rights.57

Interactions with the Criminal Justice System

More than 2.4 million people are incarcerated in the United States; the country is home to 5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners. Latinos are incarcerated at 2.5 times the rate of whites, and African Americans are at nearly 6 times the rate of whites.61 Transgender people and gender non-conforming people, particularly low-income people and people of color, face higher levels of policing and profiling, leading to higher levels of police harassment, imprisonment, and violence.

Higher levels of interaction with law enforcement inevitably leads to higher levels of arrest and incarceration for transgender people. Nearly one in six transgender people (16% overall, including 21% of transgender women) have been incarcerated at some point in their lives—far higher than the rate for the general population. Among black transgender people, nearly half (47%) have been incarcerated at some point.63


Transgender immigrants face many barriers to safety and economic security. Many transgender immigrants fled dangerous conditions in countries where being transgender is a crime, or where violence against transgender people is widespread and ignored or perpetrated by the government. Difficulty gaining legal status due to employment discrimination and family rejection, along with increased interactions with law enforcement, mean that transgender immigrants are more likely to be detained and/or deported.67 Once detained, transgender immigrants are especially vulnerable to sexual assault and other forms of abuse. Often held in prison-like conditions, transgender immigrants, including asylum seekers, are at high risk of sexual assault, denial of medical care, physical and mental abuse, and placement in solitary confinement

Section 3 - Physical Safety


Transgender people report low insurance rates and shockingly high rates of negative health outcomes.31

Only 40% of respondents to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey reported accessing health insurance through their current or former employer,34 compared to 44.6% of Americans.3

Shockingly, 41% of respondents to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey reported ever attempting suicide.45 This compares to 1.6% of all Americans who have reported attempting suicide.


Twenty-six percent of respondents in the National Transgender Discrimination Survey had been physically assaulted on at least one occasion because of antitransgender bias.48

ransgender women and transgender people of color are much more vulnerable to violence, especially at the hands of law enforcement. In the 2013 Hate Violence Report, transgender women were four times more likely to experience police violence and six times more likely to experience physical violence when interacting with the police, compared to all respondents.50 Transgender people of color were more than two and a half times more likely to experience police violence and six times more likely to experience physical violence from the police compared to white non-transgender LGB respondents.51 In 2013, transgender women of color comprised more than half of all LGBT homicide victims.52


– Believing that being transgender is a symptom of mental illness, a lie people tell, or a fad (read more: Is being transgender a mental disorder?)

– Belittling non-binary people for not fully identifying as male or female.

– Requiring transgender people to use gendered facilities such as public bathrooms that are inconsistent with their identified gender.

– Evaluating the validity of someone's gender identity based on their ability "pass" as cis.


Good for definitions

GLAAD "Understanding Series"




Movement Advancement Project




National Center for Transgender Equality


Transgender Law Center


00:48:47 10/29/2018
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast

Welcome to the last nugget for our month of consent. Today we are excited to be speaking with Joel Baum of the Gender Spectrum organization.

The Madame got to sit down with Joel to learn about the Gender Spectrum - both as a topic of learning and as an organization. Joel's organization does some amazing work to help with education around California - so you need to check out this episode.

For more information, please visit our website and check out the show notes:


And remember - you can like us on all the social media, subscribe to our channel, download our episodes, become a Patreon supporter and so much more!

Website: www.bcbpodcast.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BCBCPodcast/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BCBCPodcast
Instagram: https://twitter.com/BCBCPodcast
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/BCBCPodcast

00:39:11 10/25/2018
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast

In this MondayMumblings Monkey and Miss Laura talk about gender reveals and what you can do to be an ally and help support people with their gender identity.


00:43:48 10/23/2018
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast

Welcome to our third podcast of the gender spectrum, gender identity and gender transitions month. Today Miss Laura and the Madame get to sit down with an old friend, Q Wilson, to talk about what it means to be Genderqueer, his journey of gender identity, and all the good things therein!

Q is a self-identified gender independent, queer, polyamorous leather boi. His experience and background in many communities as an activist and educator allows him to bring us a unique point of view on gender and gender journeys.

For more information, please visit our website and check out the show notes:


And remember - you can like us on all the social media, subscribe to our channel, download our episodes, become a Patreon supporter and so much more!

Website: www.bcbpodcast.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BCBCPodcast/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BCBCPodcast
Instagram: https://twitter.com/BCBCPodcast
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/BCBCPodcast

About Our Guest:

Q is a self-identified queer, gender independent, polyamorous leather boi. It's well known that flirting is Q's default mode of communication. He can often be found with a charming smile on his face or looking mischievous with the other bois. On rare occasions, this boi might even be found dancing on a table, for the right amount of money…for charity of course!

A social justice activist for more than 20 years, Q consistently strives to bring together the various communities to which he belongs. He continues to seek avenues to actively serve as a bridge for the leather community's kinky newcomers and it's more established members, as well as those outside of the community, whenever possible.

01:11:07 10/23/2018
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast

Welcome to the third nugget for our month of consent. Today we are excited to be speaking with Chrystal Bartlett, a gender transition coach out of North Carolina.

The Monkey got to sit down with Chrystal to understand what might be involved in gender transition coaching, resources available to people, and all of those important things.

For more information, please visit our website and check out the show notes:


And remember - you can like us on all the social media, subscribe to our channel, download our episodes, become a Patreon supporter and so much more! We are a 501(c)3 non-profit organization so you can also make a tax deductible donation!

Website: www.bcbpodcast.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BCBCPodcast/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BCBCPodcast
Instagram: https://twitter.com/BCBCPodcast
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/BCBCPodcast

00:36:29 10/18/2018
Brown Chicken Brown Cow Podcast

Monkey and Miss Laura share their thoughts about a vibrating cockring from Adam & Eve.

00:16:14 10/17/2018

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